From: Don.Allen@p3.f2112.n2430.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen) Subject: Bartoo Fraud 1/4 Date: 29 Jul 94 22:21:11 GMT Organization: FidoNet node 1:2430/2112.3 - The Temples o, Springfield IL A re-post from last year from Mark Harris on some of Uncle Wally's claims: ===================================================================== AREA:UFO (1302) Wed 17 Mar 93 21:50 By: Mark Harris To: All Re: The Bartoo fraud ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, All; For some period of time, we've been subjected to the questionable postings of one Walter Bartoo. This has gone endlessly back and forth, trying the patience of the most calm participants, and driving the rest of us to distraction. Enough is enough; I've put in about as much effort as I'm likely to on this crap. I've even gone to the extent of contacting Walter directly through NetMail, and offering my services as a writer to clarify his statements, allegations, and beliefs. This turned out to be unnecessary, as his "Solinus" can communicate clearly with the written word, and has done so, both in the March/April newsletter posted on this conference, and the Jan/Feb '93 newsletter that Walter sent to me. Most likely, no one here really needs to hear this, but I'll say it anyway. It's all fake. This is one of the worst cases I've ever seen of psuedo-scientific garbage, fake spiritualism, and generally poor thinking; I'm frankly amazed that Mr. Bartoo can operate a computer, let alone put all of this together. Here's a few of the contradictions: Date: 03-05-93 09:16 (Public) From: WALTER BARTOO To: MICHAEL THOMAS Subject: ASHTAR COMMAND DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD >>In 1965 or earlier Pavlov was summoned to the Kremlin. WB> Kruschev said write everything down you know on animal conditioning WB> or your wife and kids die! We at the time had our double agent as WB> number two guy in the Kremlin who smuggled this very large WB> text out of russia to the U.S., now my point is! MT > Don't know where you get your information Walter, but Pavlov MT > died in 1936, quite a bit before 1965, and certainly before Kruschev MT > ever came to power. That was still the age of Stalin. At least get MT >your history straight before you try to persuade us of something. ================================================= What a mind-blower. Cooper Himself couldn't have provided a more uneducated, blatant contradiction of reality if he'd tried. How about this? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Area: UFO Msg: #91 Date: 03-09-93 09:41 (Public) From: WALTER BARTOO To: DANNI BREWI Subject: ANOTHER ALIEN DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD > WB> original post due to HD crash. But there is new things > verifying the > WB> thing and I've known for a long while they do exist. Next > newsletter DB > Walter, > The word I would refer to is "lizy"...could you please > verify...You say > there is new things that "verify".....Thank you.. (WB) Lizy means Lizards or Reptillians. Some of us feel the planetoid is in orbit around Mars. Reason being it is out of range of Nuclear Missles. Once this is corrected we think it will come closer. Correction only an opinion is what is coming in on the fire balls will try and destroy missle capability first. Walter ================================================= Currently, Mars is just past opposition; this means just past the point where it lies directly opposite of the Sun, and is it's closest approach to the earth. It has two moons, visible in larger amatuer telescopes, a few miles across. OK, so you stated this as an "opinion" this time; it just isn't there, Walter. An object 1,000 km across would even show a disc at that distance, ... OFFLINE 1.50 " Me a Skeptic? I trust you have proof...." # Origin: Springfield RBBS * Dane, Wis 608-849-5842 (1:121/26) (1303) Wed 17 Mar 93 21:51 By: Mark Harris To: All Re: The Bartoo fraud (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- in large telescopes, and Mars has been under continous watch by just such instruments all over the world for months. Nothing new in orbit around it, or anywhere near it. Your report is FAKE, period. Point in fact, the whole report of a 1,000 km asteroid with reptoids in it, coming to make dinner out of us, is a really major hoax. Yet you keep on citing it as evidence of the "Evil ET's", and your whole reason for posting your nonsense: to "wake us up" to it all, to "open our eyes" to the reptoid threat. There is _no_ such asteroid. Something that size moving into the inner solar system would be fairly easily spotted, and there's no way to cover up such a discovery. In addition to the professional astronomers and their observatory instruments, there's literally _millions_ of amatuers all over the world, and many of them diligently search for just such asteroids. Their reward, of course, is having it named after them; that's also why most comets are first spotted by amatuers. It's all FAKE, Walter, but I suspect you knew that. Your references to fireballs shows major ignorance of basic astronomy. Allow me to educate you. The meteors we see streaking across the night sky are about the size of a grain of sand. No kidding. The fireballs that leave a glowing trail for several seconds after their passage are about the size of a pea. Your reptoids would have to be pretty small to ride one to the surface, if that was even possible. For a meteroic fragment to actually reach the surface of our planet, it must start out at about 20 pounds; around the size of the average human head. What actually makes it to the surface, assuming it made it in one piece, would be lucky to be about the size of a baseball. Anything that size, BTW, leaves a truly impressive flaming streak across the sky, and usually makes national news. Well it should: those meteorites which actually survive to crash onto the surface of our planet contain a lot of valuable information about our solar system; when it formed, what materials are out there, the list goes on and on. When one is sighted, people from all over flock to the area to search for it; I suppose your reptoids are using "mind control" to hide their presence? Given the falsity of your allegations so far, I rather doubt it. Here's what you had to say in your January/February 1993 newsletter about some other supposedly scientifically based events: "The wobble that has developed in the axis has increased and if stabilization does not occur then a figure eight rotational pattern will result which will cause water to inundate the land. This will be followed by more instability of the continents which have movement of their own and this also effects the fluid base beneath the land masses upon which they float. All of these are effected by the use of ELF waves and microwaves. Earth has begun her corrective action. We forecast that 1993 will be a year of many physical changes on the surface of this planet." That's not even good psuedo-science. There's no "wobble", Walter; no matter how many times you try to say it, it DOESN'T EXIST. Even amatuer astronomers would be aware of it if it was real. Many of use make observiations of what are called "occultations", and "grazing occultations". This is where an asteroid or other orbital body passes in front of a star, or just grazes the edge of the image. These events are carefully timed according to at least one (and preferably two) WWV atomic clock time signals. The time from first contact to last gives an accurate size of the asteroid, for example; much more information can be gleaned from a series of such observations. The point here is that if the earth had a new wobble, or if any of the rotational characteristics of the earth changed, they would immediately show up in the timing of such events, in a way that not even the newcomer to this hobby could possibly miss. You obviously don't understand the ELF project, either. It's not too far away from me, here in Wisconsin; when I went to school for electronics, we learned a lot about it. We were curious, of course, and one of our instructors was a former Navy man who actually worked on the project. ... OFFLINE 1.50 "Help! The paranoids are after me!" # Origin: Springfield RBBS * Dane, Wis 608-849-5842 (1:121/26) (1304) Wed 17 Mar 93 21:52 By: Mark Harris To: All Re: The Bartoo fraud (3) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the basic problem they faced. We've got these great nuclear submarines, but to get a message to them, they had to risk giving away their location by coming near the surface and extending an antenna above the water. Radio waves, over the vast majority of the part of the electromagnetic spectrum we normally use, are either absorbed by the water or reflected off of it. This is due entirely to the wavelength of the radio transmission. Ever wonder why radar transmissions are in the microwave range? Microwave, BTW, refers to a specific portion of the electromagnetic spectrum where the wavelengths are very short. That's also where ham radio operators get their "2 meter band" and so on. If the wavelength of the radio transmission is larger than the object it's beamed at, it will pass right through it, unless the material contains a substance which absorbs that frequency. So, to reflect a radio wave off of some object, it's length must be smaller. Radar just won't work unless it uses very high frequencies. The ELF project was trying to do just the opposite; it was to produce radio waves at a frequency where it would pass through the earth itself, _without_any_kind_of_interaction_at_all_. Get it? ELF waves can't be effecting people, plants, buildings, or the earth itself. They are deliberately designed to pass through these things, without any interference at all. You've made other allegations, that these waves are producing "gravitational anomolies" or "shifts", and this is even more absurd. Our most advanced science has not yet produced a device which will allow the interaction of the electromagnetic force and gravity. As I said before, this isn't even good pseudo-science. Now, all of this is well and good; we already KNEW that one Mr. Bartoo was full of it. Even the most cursory examination of his position shows incredible errors and outright hoaxes. Here's an excerpt from a post dated 3-13-93, to Don Allen (mis-addressed to Dan Ross), where Mr. Bartoo states his position on the subject of proof: "I can't prove anything to anyone. None of you can. When you believe something it still is not proof. When you see something you cannot share or verify that observation because the only way to really know something is to experience it yourself. If everyones experience were proven to everyone else then we'd have a group believing something that still to another would not be proof." Well, Walter, certainly _your_ ideas and allegations can't be proved; one of the first and only honest things you've done in all this is to admit that. It can't be proved for the simple reason that none of it is true, and it's my personal opinion that it's that personal knowlege of yours, that your whole line is, indeed, fake, that makes you so defensive. The only way to accept your ravings is to suspend disbelief, and perhaps get a frontal lobotomy; nothing short of that will win any thinking person over to your demonstratably false views. Here's a paragraph, with the header, from your March/April 1993 newsletter posted on this conference: ============================================================== CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY: KNOW YOUR OWN MANIFESTATION POWER, AND SOON The Earth and her inhabitants are not as you may seem. In one sense you are an illusion. I say one sense as all forms of thought create illusions, at least from your physical perspective. This may sound like double talk, but it is really an attempt to give a simple explanation for your basic premise of existences. It is not my intent to confuse in this matter, so I will not dwell on it further. =============================================================== Well, now, I recognize that. I even asked Walter about it, in one of the many posts to him which he did not answer, and which he later claimed not to have seen. There was a whole series of books by Jane Roberts, the first of which was "Seth Speaks". "Seth" was a "higher being" of some sort, who dictated those books through Jane Roberts. That's right, they were all channeled. I found them when I was in high ... OFFLINE 1.50 "... Sure, when OINK FLAP OINK FLAP ... I'll be damned." # Origin: Springfield RBBS * Dane, Wis 608-849-5842 (1:121/26) (1305) Wed 17 Mar 93 21:53 By: Mark Harris To: All Re: The Bartoo fraud (4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- school, and read every one of them; they make a good read, if nothing else. There's also a lot of really good messages in them, even if I don't agree with much of what is presented there as reality. "Seth" had two main messages. "You create your own reality", and "you belong to a larger, multi-dimensional reality, which only your larger self is aware of". I asked specifically if Walter had read any of these books; after reading more of his newsletters, it's clear to me that he didn't respond because the basic structure of his view of the universe was lifted directly from the pages of the "Seth" books. What I quoted above could have come out of any of them (I no longer have the books, or I would look it up), but it sounds to me like it came out of "The Nature of Personal Reality", the second or third book of the series. So, not only are the "factual" portions of Walter's view flatly faked, wrong, and hoaxed, his spiritual view of the universe was plagarised as well. Nowhere in any of Walter's postings, or his personal writings, is there _anything_ to indicate that any portion of his ramblings are true. As I said at the beginning, I've had it with this nonsense. Walter has perpetrated a major hoax on us, been massively abusive to those who only requested further information, and also violated the rules of this echo in several respects, listed here: 1-* Discuss UFO. This is rule number one. This is not the forum of discussion of religion, time travel, out of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ body experiences and what not. However, the discussion of any topic is admissable if it directly relates to the UFO phenomenon. UFO is defined specifically as Unidentified Flying Objects, and should not be taken to mean anything else. Let me insert one little note: Mr. Bartoo has abused the one exception here by trying to tie his "religious" beliefs into UFO's. I believe it's been demonstrated just how fake all of those allegations are; his own posts show that most of what he's about is spiritual in nature, and far outside any rational investigation of the UFO phenomena. 4-* Absolutely no advertising. That means no BBS ads, no service-to-others ads, no personal ads, no any kind of ads. And that's my last argument, and for me, the last straw. The only way any rational person could possibly cling to such obviously false ideas is if they stood to get some money for it. It wasn't two weeks ago that Mr. Bartoo mentioned that his newsletter was for sale, and now they've posted a full ad for "love donations". I had asked Don Allen, the Moderator, if he would allow me some time to get to the bottom of this, and he granted it. I see no reason to delay any longer; Don, whatever actions you were going to take, I'm done with Bartoo's fakery and abuse. TO DON ALLEN: This is just my personal opinion, and not one I'm going to press with you or anyone else. Still, it's something I would like to say, here in the open echo. Mr. Bartoo has abused our patience and insulted our intelligence enough. He's violated both the echo's rules, and those of the FidoNet itself; it's my strictly personal opinion that his access to the FidoNet should be immediately and permanently removed. His has been an extreme case, and should be met with equally extreme measures. Now, that's just my opinion, and most likely the only time I'll state it. I'll support whatever decision is made; call this just my personal "vote". Regards, Mark R. Harris ... OFFLINE 1.50 "... I'm just here for moral support... Ignore the gun..." # Origin: Springfield RBBS * Dane, Wis 608-849-5842 (1:121/26) -- Don Allen - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@p3.f2112.n2430.z1.FIDONET.ORG ====================================================================== Inquiries regarding ParaNet, or mail directed to Michael Corbin, should be sent to: mcorbin@paranet.org. Or you can phone voice at 303-429-2654/ Michael Corbin Director ParaNet Information Services