Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:42:14 GMT From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk Subject: Bob Oeschler Interview Transcript of a radio interview of Bob Oeschler with Nicky Campbell on BBC Radio 1FM on 7/10/93. Transcribed by Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk -------------------------------------------------- As the title says, this is a transcript of a recent radio interview with Bob Oeschler. Before we go into the transcript, a word about Radio One. It's a predominantly music radio station run by the BBC in Great Britain, but that doesn't stop Nicky Campbell interviewing people on his night-time slot of 10-midnight Mon-Thurs. He's interviewed many stars and also a few obscure people with strange interests, from vampire hunters to ufologists. He has interviewed Timothy Good twice and had a quick on-air phone conversation with Bob Oeschler in the summer of 1990. Bob was on a personal visit calling on Timothy when he got in touch with Nicky about doing an interview. The rest, as they say, is history. Here's the interview, NC is Nicky Campbell, BO is Bob Oeschler. Any comments made by me are inside square brackets []. -------------------------------------------- NC: My special guest is Bob Oeschler, investigations analyst, ex of NASA, and Bob has an extraordinary story which he is about to tell, about aliens, and alien craft, and governmental cover-ups. Bob, how long were you with NASA? BO: I was with NASA in the mid-seventies, er, working on several projects, including the Appolo Soyuz [sp?] test project, I worked on the docking collar that mated the two craft. I also worked on the international ultrabiotics [sp?] explorer, several deep space projects and some Department of Defense projects. NC: And, in the end, er, you left and you've, um, sort of come out of the "UFO closet", if you like. BO: Well, I wouldn't call it a "UFO closet" actually, I... NC: But is it not rather embarrassing for your ex-colleagues in the light of what you've said about alien retrieved craft and so forth, that you've spilled a few beans, that, er, would I to believe your story they would have wanted to keep in the can? BO: Well, that's partially true, but what from what I got, you see I ended up getting guidance, er, I was called in because of my expertise in remotely operated airborne robotic systems, err, to evaluate some, err, activities that had been reported on video films, err, there was some rather extraordinary physics, er, in fact it appeared as though the objects were violating the laws of physics as we know them. NC: Hang on, NASA called you in to analyse these video film? BO: No I wasn't called in by NASA, I was called in by an agency in Washington DC, er, a couple of different agencies in fact that had been addressed, one was the Department of the Navy... NC: Had you left NASA by this point? BO: Yes I had, yeah, and I was asked to utilize the facilities of the NASA facility at Godard Space Flight Center, to review some of the video films that had been recorded recently... NC: By whom? BO: By, actually the first one was recorded by a custom builder who happened to see an object flying around behind the high school, behind his home, in this little town of five thousand people, down in the northwest pan-handle of Florida [probably the Gulf Breeze case of 1987/8], and I, er, had the opportunity to spend a good bit of time, five months in fact, doing an analysis at the Godard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. NC: Courtesy of NASA? BO: Ah yes. They gave me the operational facilities there to use for the analysis project. NC: So they're not greatly embarrassed by the fact that you're looking into alien life forms and so forth. BO: Well, no. They didn't really what it was, in fact they probably were hoping that I was going to be able to discover that this was some kind of hoax, you know, somebody had made a radio controlled model or something like that. NC: But that's not what you discovered? BO: No, in fact an optical physicist with the Navy was the one that really initiated the interest in getting the analysis done because he was observing some things that he couldn't quite explain, so I got involved in the project and, extraordinarily enough, we were able to determine that there was absolutely no possible way that this could have been a model flying around, this thing was exhibiting capabilities of extraordinary direction reversals at slow speed, but with no deceleration or acceleration. NC: How did NASA react to your findings of your findings, your investigations? BO: They didn't have a reaction, there was never official reaction, they were just more or less bystanders and interested in the results. What we later discovered is that, as a result of that, I had sought guidance from the highest levels of the United States intelligence community, and in particular Admiral Bobby Ray Inman who was the head of the National Security Agency, Deputy Directorate of the CIA, a host of other top intelligence posts, and a technologist, and, er, there was a sort of comraderie sort of establishment that. He had informed me in a documented recorded telephone conversation, inadvertently recorded actually, [NC laughs] that the US government had possession of, er, extraordinary hardware, in operational condition, that was of non-human origin and manufacture. Of course the public popular term is UFO... NC: And you've seen them? BO: I have indeed. NC: We're going to find out about that in a couple of minutes, we're going to play a record first. ------------- Record played ------------ NC: This is 1FM, Bob Oeschler is with me, ex of NASA investigations analyst. We got to the point, Bob, in your story and you're only in the UK on a flying visit. Er, you came on a plane then, not a UFO! BO: Right, we had to leave the disk in the shop, er, time to change the oil every 55000 miles! NC: But you're deadly serious, you know, this isn't a wind up, is it? This isn't... BO: That's right. NC: You're going to come to some of the technology of it later on. It's absolutely riveting. You've seen, you say, retrieved craft. What was the expression you used? Hardware? BO: Operational hardware, right. NC: You've seen this. Who, in whose possession was it? BO: I've seen it in both situations. I've seen it where they were being piloted and guided by, er, presumably non-human pilots, they clearly were not remotely operated vehicles. NC: Have you seen it in, in US governmental... care? BO: Yes, and I've talked to a number of test pilots who have worked on the projects and test flight programmes, worked with, what you might call, mechanics or actually physicists, er, who'd work on propulsion systems related to the vehicles, and they report some rather extraordinary findings. NC: How close did you get to one of these things? BO: I've been within about two hundred feet, er, that's the closest I've been to one. NC: Why no closer to it? BO: Well, in the case of the vehicles that were operated by non-humans, er, it was surprising that I was able to get that close because I certainly didn't have any control of that situation, and in the case of US military... NC: Yes, that's what I'm talking about. BO: ...intelligence, due to a variety of security and safety restrictions really. NC: Were they not extremely guarded about this operational craft, even given the fact that you were, um, unofficial in certain ways, were they not extremely guarded and nervous about _anyone_ was seeing it beyond a chosen few? BO: Well, er, again we do have it on record that these issues are covered under National Secrecy laws. Er, however there is something of a dichotomy that exists here. Yes, the technology is highly classified, but the issues of the vehicles themselves, of the presence of the intelligent species, er, behind them is the subject of an indoctrination programme in especially the US but it's also worldwide, I've found, er, they.. Studies have been conducted back in the, er, very late fifties, paid for by NASA actually, is conducted at the Brookings Institute in Washington DC, regarding the implications of a confrontation with an extra-terrestrial culture, whether or not this information should be withheld from the public, what the outcome would be... NC: Yes, because it's fairly shattering, shatters many illusions, moral, religious, ethical, the whole bit. BO: ...theology, exactly, especially in the economic arena is with, of course, the biggest concern was. NC: So, so, as a corollary to what you're saying, why were they not extra careful that people like you didn't wonder in and have a look, which you evidently did, and come over and talk about it on radio shows and television shows, which you evidently are? BO: Well, because, in effect, I end up, wittingly or unwittingly, playing a part in their indoctrination scheme. The idea is that in order to solve the problem of the chaos created by public disclosure, er, it was determined back in the late sixties, that the solution to avoiding chaos was a slow long-term indoctrination programme. They got involved, the intelligence community got involved in the development of files like, er, "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind" and "E.T.". NC: So briefly, what is your role in this? Why do, why are they quite relaxed about the fact that you're talking like this and, and you talked about security regulations, presumably you're breaching all of those? Why are they relaxed about it? BO: They, well, again, it's like I say, there is in fact an indoctrination programme, and I'm essentially playing a part in that. NC: You're a drip feed. BO: You could say that. The difference would be you can either have, err, lunatics running about talking about aliens and extra-terrestrial spacecraft without any basic background knowledge to what they're talking about and just speculating wildly, or you could have somebody who actually knows something about it, or several people who knows something about it to set the record straight and to provide that information. NC: Right, let's have some more music and then I'm going to find out more about these alien craft, these alien creatures, why they're here, what sort of deal is going on between them and our governments, and also some other things which I think you're going to find intriguing, with Bob Oeschler, after this. ---------------- Record played ---------------- NC: Bob Oeschler my guest tonight, ex of NASA. So you were within two hundred feet of this alien craft, Bob, um, which you say was a retrieved craft in operational order. What does it look like? BO: Well, again, I don't know that I can say that it was a _retrieved_ craft, erm, as far as I'm aware, erm, it could just as well been given to us, erm. It certainly wasn't shot down... NC: _Given?_ BO: ...it could have been provided, erm, maybe there was... NC: All right. BO: ...a barter arrangement or something. NC: A barter arrangement? Right, I'm going to write that down so that I come back to that, "Barter arrangement given", because that, er, strikes, er, an interesting note. Um, what did it look like? BO: Well the, er, it was about a thirty feet diameter, disc-shaped craft, had, er, a sort of a small dome around the centre portion, er, there was protruding flanges equidistant around the outer edge, er, there was some kind of apparatus hanging down at the bottom, it was, erm, floating above the ground, probably at about ten feet altitude, er, a tremendous amount of plasmatic light of various colours.. NC: Sorry? BO: Plasma? It's, erm, a very, very bright white light that is caused by an interaction of a very high electrical voltage field around the disk. In fact, er, I was able to learn that the reason they use a circular type of craft is in order to _contain_ a high voltage field so you don't have a corona discharge. In fact if you were near any power lines... NC: Sorry?! BO: ...or on ordinary power lines, you might have seen these round, spherical resistors that they put on, the capacitors, they put on the power lines, that's to avoid a discharge of electricity that might zap somebody driving by in a car. NC: Listen, there may very well be some astrophysicists listening, but I'm not one of them, erm, suffice to say that this is a highly sophisticated looking piece of equipment. How do you know it wasn't made here? BO: Because I was told, for one, plus I also interviewed an official of the Canadian government who was actually on board the craft and visited with the intelligence that was on board. [long silence] You seem stunned! NC: Yes, he did _what_ with the intelligence on board? BO: Visited with them, communicated, er, interacted, er, the individual, I believe, was taken on board, probably without being asked "would you like to come on board?". NC: Did you speak to this individual, this Canadian, about his...? BO: Yes I did speak to this individual and arranged to have conducted a military polygraph exam... NC: That's a lie detector? BO: Yes, indeed. NC: And what was the result of it? BO: Well, let me put it this way, the polygraph examiner said at the beginning, that when we started in on this thing there's absolutely _no_way_ this individual has to be making this up, er. When we completed the exam, which took approximately a week of extraordinary work just to construct the proper questioning procedure, er, the polygraph examiner came away, scratching his head, convinced not only was the, er, witness telling the truth, or believed what the witness was saying, but also this was not, er, any form of, er, hallucination or, er... NC: The witness, that you call this Canadian gentleman, was the only person on board. BO: You call him gentleman, I haven't, you know, I've been very careful to keep neutral with regard to gender. NC: Ahhh, so it was a woman. BO: [laughs] That's an interesting conclusion. NC: [laughs] You may be a scientist, but I know a bit about logic myself! This is amazing. What did this person, he or she, or it, or whatever, relay about their conversations, in italics, with, er, or communications I should say, with the intelligent life form? BO: Well, intriguingly enough, one of two entities that she had a direct encounter with, apparently was dying, was quite ill. They, apparently, were conducting operations against their will, indicating that, er, they were under control of some other intelligence, shall we say. Er, don't know what the other intelligence was, or at least I am not at liberty to say what the speculation is at this point. NC: Well, what is the speculation? I mean, you can, you can tell us. BO: Er, it's a little... I'd prefer not to... to.. to get into that end of it, but, er, let's just say that er... NC: Why not? Well, I'm not asking you to, but why not? BO: Well I think it would probably be inappropriate because it could in fact, er, be rather indictable to, er, particular species of humans, shall we say. NC: Us, in other words? BO: Well not us, but a specific nationality of humans was, was referenced in this, er, encounter, and it wouldn't be proper or fair to suggest or indict some, er, nationality... NC: Well, well, OK... BO: It wouldn't be ethical in those senses. NC: So, er, they would be made to do this against their will, errr, these... and how did they communicate? BO: Telepathically, err, which is an interesting study in itself. Telepathic communication is, er, is quite intriguing, because we've been able to learn that you can have five different individuals in the room, all speaking different tongues, and a telepathic communication could be transmitted to all five simultaneously and the translation effect, er, takes place within the individual, so, ironically enough, you don't have to know the language to conduct telepathic communications. NC: Well if we could do that, I could know exactly what you were talking about, so would that particular species of human a few minutes ago. What did they look like? BO: They were approximately four feet tall, they had self-illuminating skin was, er, bit on the, er, sort of a yellowish-white. The eyes were rather large, black, we don't know if it was actually a coating because of the sensitivity of the eyes, but, er, it looked like those big wraparound sun-glasses they used to have a couple of decades back. NC: And they were wearing clothes, this, er, person? BO: They were wearing black, jumpsuit type clothing, right. NC: Very natty! Er, right, let's have some more music. ------------- Record played -------------- NC: You're listening to Into the Night on 1FM with me, Nicky Campbell. Bob Oeschler, ex-NASA mission specialist is with me. Earlier on, Bob, you were talking about the fact that this craft may well have been given as part of some "barter" arrangement. You've got to tell me more about this. BO: Well, the fact that I was able to learn that, er, at one facility, of which I understand that there are several, but I've not visited them, er, but at one facility there's housed nine different types of craft, I assume all in operational condition from what I was told by people who were there, and, er, that, er, to have an operational craft you would assume it didn't crash somewhere, and was recovered, and presumably it wasn't shot down or you would expect to find some kind of damage to it, unless of course some method of electromagnetic pulse weapon system, or something like that, might have been used, er, to disable the craft, and then again you'd expect to have some kind of damage in, in, in the retrieval operation. NC: So you're maintaining that there's some sort of deal going on between the US government, or the Allied governments, or whatever they're called in this new World Order, and some alien life form, There's some sort of "arrangement"? BO: Well, I asked Admiral Inman that question if he was aware of any on-going dialogues today, I promise he had left off the word "today" because he, er, indicated, er, not to his knowledge. However, I did get the impression that from the period of 1979 to 1982 that there very well could have been some form of dialogue going on with at least one species and that opens up yet another Pandora's Box because the evidence clearly suggests that there's more than one species involved, just like there's more than one nationality of human being, or species if you will. NC: We're talking about more than one genus, more than one... BO: Apparently so, and in fact even in this one, the creatures that I described just a little while ago, er, clearly appears that there are different species of those. We find different features like, for example, the same typical species would have a snout nose feature, whereas others have virtually no facial features, in other words no nose, no mouth, or anything like that. NC: What do they want from us? BO: Well, that again is a very difficult question to answer because that would presume that we had some knowledge of the alien agenda. We don't really know what the alien agenda is, we can only derive from analysis, the facts of what we see. Clearly what is going on, er, there is, er, aside from the fact that there's a genetic engineering programme, that's another mix altogether, but apparently they have, er, abducted is the term that's been commonly used, er, human beings, from all walks of life, with no apparent rhyme or reason to a selection process for at least four generations now, er, we've been able to document that they have been taken, given medical examinations, er, extract semen from males, extract eggs from females, er, fertilise eggs, to a half-breed shall we say, reimplant the egg in the womb, er, the female, of course, is impregnated, er, will carry, er, the foetus for three months and will be reabducted and the foetus extracted. In some cases we've had twins, where one of the twins was extracted just before birth, which is, again, be quite a shock for the mother who, you know, is told she's having twins for nine months... NC: This is going on? BO: This is going on, absolutely, right now, er, today, in very significant numbers. NC: And the government knows about it? BO: Absolutely. NC: And they're quite happy about it because some deal's been done? BO: We've evaluated as many as three thousand cases in North America. NC: So out there, in outer space, there's a whole lot of half-breeds going around, half alien half, er, human, and... BO: You know, well, we don't really know what the purpose is for anything like that, I mean maybe they're trying to see another planet, who knows what the, you know, there's been speculation about, er, they're trying to reinstitute some of their, they're on the down side of their evolutionary curve, they're trying to reinstitute some lost, er, ahh, qualities or something or other. We have also had some rather extraordinary cases, quite a number really, involving the study of human emotions where they will create a scenario, almost being able to create a psychosomatic [sp?] environment. Those who have seen the new features of, er, Star Wars Deep Space Nine, they have a holodeck where they seem to be able to simulate a thing... NC: Yes? BO: ...well, it's almost as if that sort of environment is created in order to extract, or illicit, from a human being a specific emotion. They'll take that individual into a specific room, er, we've identified the specific apparatus they'll use to put on the head of the individual, they'll put a similar apparatus on the head of one of the aliens, er, they will somehow trigger a replay mechanism, if you will, and force the human to relive the experience, er, mentally and, er, transpose the whole emotional process to the entity, and that one will get out, they'll bring another one in, and they'll go through this process twelve times for the same incident, for example, er, and it's kind of remarkable because one might assume "oh gee, with all this kind of technology you'd think they'd have the ability to do a multiple memory dump or something or other", but that's clearly not, you know, those aren't the facts of what we're getting in these cases. NC: [takes a deep breath] Blimey! Bob Oeschler is my guest tonight, I'm going to have, er, a chat to Bob about the technology of these craft, are we using the technology, just, er, how did these UFOs work, because he's studied that and he's got some interesting things to say, after this. --------------- Record played -------------- NC: Extraordinary stuff Into the Night tonight, my guest, Bob Oeschler, ex of NASA, talking about retrieved alien craft, landed alien craft, alien craft that had been given to us as part of a barter with another life form, he's talking about the fact that humans have been taken on these craft. This is an ex-NASA scientist here, he says that it's just a matter of time before all this information is commonly known sometime in the next century, no doubt, er, but they've got to drip feed it to us because it's too much for us all at once, it's certainly too much for me at this time of night, Bob, but you are a scientist, how did these spacecrafts work? Space _craft_, how did they work? BO: Well it's a very, very fascinating science because, er... NC: Don't be _too_ technical. BO: No, I'll do my best. As Carl Sagan often has said, it's not logical for us to even consider travelling to the nearest star system due to the concepts of linear travel, it doesn't matter how fast you go, if you can approach the speed of light, you'd still have to go from point A to point B in whatever that distance in light years is, it takes way to long for us to consider feasibly going there and coming back. Er, well if you can eliminate some of these concepts, as what has apparently happened with these craft, what they do is, er, they're able to generate their own gravitational field, er, and without getting too technical, they're able to manipulate time, which is something that we've been very much aware of for a couple of decades at NASA is that gravity slows down time, in contrast to what we normally think of as sixty seconds a minute and so on, there is no constant relative to that except in one place in terms of the gravity, you know, and there was the gravity field is the same on the surface of the Earth, but when you leave the surface of the Earth, er, strange things begin to happen in terms of time. The fact is that as time speeds up the further away from a gravity influence you get. Well these machines create intensified gravitational fields which in effect slow down time as we see it and are able to cut down the amount of time it takes to go from point A to point B. The other point is that if they're able to focus a gravity field on another point, they are able to stretch, or pull together, points A and B as if I, if you view, let's say space is like a water bed. If you put a bowling ball in the middle of the water bed, the bed kind of wraps up around the ball. Well this is very typical of what happens in space, if you create an intensified gravitational field you warp the distances between the two, in other words, shortening the distance between A and B, making the whole concept more feasible, and that's in a nutshell really how these things operate is by warping space and time, and, er, getting into some real interesting astrophysical sciences. It interprets into a much more feasible method of travel. [Bob Lazar's theory] NC: So it's not like getting from A to B, the old linear travel? It's, erm, the technology is kind of anti-matter. BO: Well there are some systems that use what is referred to as an anti-matter reactor, which is an extremely powerful system that uses super-heavy elements, er, well beyond those that we have been familiar with traditionally, like uranium. They are able to capitalise, er, apparently there's a low-grade B gravity wave which is different from the atomic gravity that holds molecules together, that they're able to capitalise off that and amplify it. They use a series of amplifiers in order to focus it, it's alot easier to focus three points than it is just to try to focus one. Typically with a telescope we'll try to focus one, what we've learned in deep space science, like in the SETI project is that if you put one antennae here [London, Great Britain], one in Aricebo [sp?], you know, and you spread these around the planet, you can actually focus three different points, get a much bigger telescopic view. Well this is very similar to the types of things that they're doing with gravity waves. NC: So presumably they've taken some of these elements heavier than uranium down here, and we've, er, got them in our hands and they're being examined? BO: That's another interesting phenomenon too is that we apparently have about five hundred pounds of this, er, of the _fuel_, shall we say, the heavy gravity stabilised fuel the systems that are used [Element 115]. Er, how we go that is remarkable because it only takes about 223 grams to operate one of these things and we don't even know how long, I mean it's a lot longer than the average car will last, I'll tell you that. NC: It's amazing stuff, one last question. Why haven't we utilised any of this thus far? BO: Well actually we have in quite a number of areas, er, the development of the B-2 stealth bomber was one that I'm aware of where an anti-gravity cavern was developed... NC: Sure, an impressive machine, but it's hardly a spectacular use of alien technology, I mean... BO: Well that's not the point. NC: It's not going to take us to another solar system, so why haven't we been to a solar system if we have known all this for such a relatively long time? BO: Well it's certainly advanced, and that would assume that we have a complete understanding of the technology to go to another star system. The prospects are that we have used it to go to the Moon, but right now it seems that the focus at this point seems to be to learn how to adapt some of the alien derived technologies into applicable human uses, one of which is to develop air transport that can carry large amounts of weight over long distances without the fuel requirements that, er, we typically are confronted with. NC: We've been to the Moon using this technology, you think? Moon missions that we know about? BO: That we don't know about. NC: There have been Moon missions that we don't know about? BO: Er, that's my understanding, yes. NC: Hmm, well we could go on all night, Bob, it's been fascinating having you. Have a safe journey home, I know that you're flying back tomorrow. Bob Oeschler, investigations analyst, and, erm, a man with a good story to tell, if nothing else, er, I think people have enjoyed listening. Thanks very much. BO: Thanks for having me. --------------------------------------------------- Nicky then went on to say that Bob hasn't got any books or papers out, he wasn't paid for the interview, but he did write a chapter in Timothy Good's Alien Update that was published in the Spring of 1993. You can write to him at: Bob Oeschler, 136 Oakwood Road, Edgewater, Maryland, 21037, USA. Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, 10th October 1993. ------------------------------------------------------- Coming soon (well, before the end of the month anyway): Nick Humphries' UFO Guide. An ASCII version will be uploaded first, followed by a PostScript version that will include some diagrams and better page layout. It may even feature a cover if you're lucky!